Dragon029

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Apr 22nd, 2017
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  1. I haven't posted on this forum in a while, so sorry if this isn't the correct thread for suggesting official database changes. Also, this is going to be a bit in-depth, so if you need someone better explained, just ask.
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  3. I have a few suggestions relating to 4.5th and 5th gen PESAs and AESAs:
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  5. At the moment the APG-63, 77, 79 and even N036 all have the same max range of 120nmi and very little differentiates them; their resolutions, beamwidths, noise levels, etc are all the same; the only real differences are in peak power and processing gain loss, which I believe have some errors, particularly with the F-35's APG-81 and F-22's APG-77v1.
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  7. Other than those few, I also noticed that the CAPTOR-E, Irbis-E and RBE-2AA have ranges of 160, 160 and 140nmi respectively, exceeding those of the above AESAs.
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  9. With AESAs, a we can get details from the number of T/R modules by literally counting them on photos of uncovered arrays. Figures I've found online and counted myself (the number in square brackets is the current max range of the radar in CMANO, in nmi):
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  11. APG-77 = 1956 [120]
  12. APG-79 = 1368 [120]
  13. APG-81 = 1628 [100]
  14. CAPTOR-E = 1424 [160]
  15. RBE2-AA = 842 (yes, <1000) [140]
  16. N036 = 1512 (forward facing array only) [120]
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  18. The number of T/R modules is a major factor in output power and antenna gain. Naturally there are other factors we don't have numbers for and which are classified, but these numbers can be used for estimating performance relative to other similar radars (eg of the same manufacturer and generation). Gain for example is directly proportional to aperture size, which is proportional to T/R module count.
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  20. Some other relevant data:
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  22. The APG-77's radar range was thought to be 125-150mi (108-130nmi); the 120nmi figure currently in use in CMANO is fine in that regard. The APG-77v1 however was / is expected to "push next-generation radar ranges, in narrow beams, out to 250mi. or more." (217nmi+): http://www.webcitation.org/6Qpsm5PUo?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f22-raptor.com%2Fmedia%2Fdocuments%2Faviation_week_010807.pdf
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  24. As to the other US AESAs; the APG-81 came after the APG-77 and has been described as a "4th generation AESA" (not to be confused with fighter generation) while the -77 was a 3rd gen. The APG-77v1 however 'captures' advances in tech made for the APG-81 (and APG-80 for the F-16E/F) and is also described as a 4th gen AESA: http://www.deagel.com/Sensor-Systems/ANAPG-77_a001562001.aspx
  25. Specifically, it's believed that while the APG-77 used 4W T/R modules (for a 7.8kW peak output, the APG-80, -81 and -77v1 are believed to use 10W T/R modules for 16.3kW and 19.6kW peak outputs respectively. Note too that none of the AESAs mentioned use GaN transmitters, they all only use GaAs, so it's not like (eg) the CAPTOR-E can be putting out 8 times as much power to compensate for a lower number of T/R modules.
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  27. Note however that the change from 4W to 10W is not enough to produce a >1.6x range increase; there would also need to be a 4dB increase in either gain, reduction of minimum detectable noise, or some mix of the two (eg 3dB in the first, 1dB in the latter; so long as they add to 4dB).
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  29. It's also worth adding that while some PESAs can be quite powerful, AESA receivers "typically enjoy a 6 dB or better noise figures advantage", which (using the radar range equation) means a 41.2% increase in range over an equivalent PESA / MSA radar. By comparison, if everything else (besides system noise) was equal, a PESA would need to output 4x more power to match an AESA.
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  31. [b]So what do I suggest the ranges of these radars be?[/b] These numbers I'm about to give are extrapolations based on limited data and I'm sure the real numbers are different to these; nevertheless, I believe that the following figures are still considerably better than the current arrangement:
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  33. For the Irbis-E, NIIP themselves say the radar has a range of 350km against a 3m^2 target; that equates to 140nmi, not 160nmi, for a 1m^2 target.
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  35. For the APG-77, keep it as is.
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  37. For the APG-77v1, increase max range to 220nmi, decrease RadarSystemNoiseLevel to 1 and/or increase RadarProcessingGainloss by perhaps 2 to 4.
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  39. For the APG-79, assuming it uses the same T/R modules as the APG-77 (old) model, it should have a range of about 110nmi. If it has the newer Gen 4 T/R modules (possible, but the deagle.com source above mentions the -80, -81, but not -79 as being contributors to the 77v1), then it'll have a range of around 180nmi.
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  41. For the APG-81, increase range to 200nmi, make its system noise and radar processing gain loss to whatever is chosen for the APG-77v1.
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  43. For the CAPTOR-E, range can increase to 185nmi. I feel that processing gain loss is a bit high, but I have no sources suggesting either way.
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  45. For the RBE2-AA, range should decrease to 100nmi based on a blogger (who generally makes poor, unsourced posts, but is rather pro-French) who gave figures of 208km for a 5m^2 target and 278km when 'coupled' with Spectra. By comparison, if the RBE2-AA used the same 4W T/R modules as the 77, it'd have a range of 88.6nmi, so this seems reasonable enough; it does seem unfair to give a sensor fusion bonus to the Rafale and not the F-35, which has an even more advanced interpretation, but maybe the F-22 and F-35's high radar range performance already factors that in.
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  47. For the N036, it's harder to say; if the Byelka follows the Zhuk-AE family, its performance will be relatively low; a 1016 T/R module Zhuk-AE FGA-35 has a detection range of 250km for a 3m^2 target (102.6nmi for a 1m^2 target); a notional 1512 T/R module PAK-FA-sized version would only have a range of 125nmi. NIIP has been demonstrating newer radar systems, including some GaN systems, but they've come after the N036 entered (initial) production. N036 is meant to be at least partly based on the Irbis-E (N035) however (and not the Zhuk-AE), so it wouldn't be unreasonable for the PAK-FA to have a range of around 400km against a 3m^2 target (160nmi against a 1m^2 target). If the PAK-FA used the same T/R modules as the APG-77v1 and APG-81, it'd have a range of 190nmi. I think it better if someone else make an executive decision as to which figure is most reasonable.
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  49. While little is known about their specific radar systems, based on radome bulkhead sizes, the J-20 is also expected to have a radar similar to the APG-77 in size (~2000 T/R modules), while the J-31 will likely have a ~1500 T/R module class AESA. As such they should be scaled and be given appropriate specifications (eg; 200nmi for the J-20, 180nmi for the J-31).
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  51. There are other AESAs in the game obviously, but for some like the APG-63v3 I don't have T/R module counts. In the case of the -63v3 however, aperture area does indicate that it should have a range closer to 200nmi+ than 120nmi.
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  53. On a side note; the SHF frontal RCS of at least the F-22 and F-35 seem to be about an order of magnitude / 10dB too high; for reference, -30dB corresponds to a metal sphere with a 35mm diameter; roughly that of a golf ball. Quotes from the past several years put the F-22 and F-35 as being roughly marble / pea / pebble sized (~10mm diameter; 0.0001m^2 or -40dBsm). https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragon029/comments/30fa43/f35_vs_f22_b2_stealth_claims/
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